Approved Distribution Revolution

[Birkal]

This concept by trc was approved for discussion. Is this concept worth pursuing? If so, what questions could we ask? How could we improve this? Everyone is free to discuss the following submission as if this was a concept discussion.

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Name: Distribution Revolution

Description: A Pokemon which puts heavy emphasis on the importance of the distribution of EVs.

Justification: EVs are an important, though often forgotten, part of competitive play. In Pokemon, the EVs define the end value of our stats. We are allowed 508 EVs which can be allotted in any of six stats, Attack, Special Attack, Defense, Special Defense, Speed, and HP. The aim of this concept is to create a Pokemon that takes advantage of the allowed amount of EVs in several different ways that result in several notably different ways of using the Pokemon, and seems almost perfect at doing so.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What competitive roles commonly differ based on EV spreads?
• Where can we see examples of this to make comparisons to the current concept?
• How important is specific EV investment in specific stats? Where is it more delicate than others?
• Is it possible to make a Pokemon that can be this delicate itself, where EV differences change its role vastly?
• How will the typing interact with this? Do we want a typing that seems like it would be successful at different roles?
• Will we consider there a finite amount of "usable EV spreads" that we can discover and utilize with this CAP, or is there room for exploration?

Explanation: The majority of offensive Pokemon are recommended to use a very simple EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk or SpA / 252 Spe in order to accomplish their given role. Defensive Pokemon are often seen with more elaborate EV spreads that increase overall bulk while also avoiding specific OHKOes / 2HKOes from certain Pokemon. Pokemon with particularly awkward Speed tiers often only use enough Speed EVs to outspeed the closest relevant threat below their maximum achievable Speed if it threatens that Pokemon in some way. However, there is often more in-depth EV distribution. Some people manipulate the amount of EVs in HP to take less damage from Stealth Rock while switching-in, or to gain more health from Leftovers. In the Genesect metagame, a huge amount of Pokemon with even Defense stats added 4 EVs in one of the defenses so that opposing Genesect would miss out on the Download boost that would favour them more. I want to see how much further we can go with this EV manipulation. I think we can create a Pokemon that can fulfil this criteria and be a positive metagame addition. I'm going to show some examples of hypothetical Pokemon that somewhat portray what I am trying to achieve. The Pokemon could have an interesting Speed tier with average stats all around. Lets say it is a mixed attacker with Speed just above Dragonite and Mamoswine, but gets KOed by Dragonite's Dragon Claw and Mamoswine's Earthquake. It has the moves Icicle Crash and Hydro Pump. If it runs enough Speed for Dragonite and enough Attack for Icicle Crash to KO it, then it will not have enough Special Attack investment leftover to OHKO Mamoswine, and this dies in return. If it runs enough Speed for Mamoswine it can allot more EVs in Special Attack, KO it, but lose out on Dragonite. Another example is a Pokemon that avoids being OHKOed / 2HKOed by both Azumarill and Keldeo with certain amounts of bulk; it can use enough Speed and bulk for Azumarill to survive one hit on the switch-in and KO back, but it lacks the bulk to avoid the 2HKO as it switches in on Keldeo. If it runs more bulk to survive the Keldeo 2HKO, it can't use enough Speed for Azumarill. The idea is to create a Pokemon that can fulfil several different roles depending on its EV spread (an example of such being XY's Mega Venusaur, which can be offensive or defensive, or BW Jirachi, which could wall certain Pokemon, take offensive roles, spread status, or revenge kill with a Choice Scarf), while also having a large amount of specific metagame-relevant examples of things gained and lost by certain EV spreads. This heavily influences the stat stage and may require a fair bit more research than other CAPs, but I think it is an interesting idea worth exploring. There is somewhat precedent with the likes of Jirachi and Mew, but they don't have the exact specific technicalities that this CAP would achieve. Altogether, I think it is an interesting choice for a CAP Pokemon and is definitely worth using.

 

[LightningLord2]

I like low defenses/high HP stat spreads when it comes to flexible EV investments - it can be really bulky, but not investing into a defensive stat will leave you frail. Also, the Pokémon should be able to boost its offense with its ability and/or use high-power moves to be able to hit hard with medium-low attacking stats. Again, this means you need to invest to do damage, which lets you do high damage if you do.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Speed's probably going to be the most important stat we need to figure out in order to make this concept succeed. We need it to be in a speed tier where a variety of different speed distributions in both Speed-boosted and non-speed boosted natures get past significant enough threats that Speed distribution is important. Otherwise we risk 252/252/4 spreads being better than other spreads.

 

[trc]

ignore the examples btw they suck and are old ^_^

 

[ginganinja]

I actually really like this concept. Sure, I have doubts as to whether we could successfully fine tune our actual stats to pull off flexible EV spreads, but its still an interesting thing to look at. I think the initial challenge to the concept is that its very much focused around the "stats" part of the CAP process, so we would need a strong direction in regards to typing, abilities and moves but its certainly an engaging challenge. It reminds me a little of Necturna in that you could do "everything" without doing "everything" but idk, I'm sure there are multiple different ways of viewing this particular concept.

 

[Qwilphish]

This is probably my favorite concept that has been posted thus far. As I have said multiple times both on forums and IRC, I would look forward to the discussion on benchmarks in the OU metagame which would lead to a lot of learning in and by itself, something which has been lost from CAP in the previous projects. Benchmarks regarding what Speeds show up most often, what attacks are most relevant to survive, what Pokemon can we "pick and choose" what we want to target. As ginga has said, this project would require a great deal of leadership in order to maintain unity on the goal of the project, and that is probably the most difficult aspect of this concept.

Another nice aspect of this concept is that it is definite in its goal (have multiple viable EV spreads), yet it is still allows for flexibility. Even in the examples given in the OP the Pokemon are diverse between themselves (Jirachi, Mega-Venu) so it shows that we are not pidgeonholed into any sort of role.

Overall, I'm optimistic that we can successfully fulfill this concept despite its broad spectrum of options :]

EDIT: I don't think that we should DIScourage 252 / 252 spreads used with this CAP as they are perfectly viable options for offensive spreads who need to hit as hard and as fast as possible. Making that spread the most common spread however should be heavily discouraged. We should try to make it so that we have the bulk to survive a certain common hit which we couldnt otherwise if we go with no bulk, nor can outspeed even if we were to go max speed for example.

 

[Bughouse]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't tons of mons already have this? I mean, different EV spreads almost always just mean it's a different set.

Of course SpDef Heatran has different EVs from ScarfTran. Of course Rocky Helmet Garchomp has different EVs from SD Garchomp. Of course Assault Vest Azumarill has different EVs from Belly Drum Azumarill.

Isn't this concept just asking to create a versatile pokemon? I don't really see what's going on and what would be interesting.

 

[trc]

you're missing the point. im not trying to create a pokemon that has several sets with different evs, im trying to create a pokemon with incredibly specific and detailed versatility behind a number of ev spreads which lend themselves to various different, yet valuable roles that the others can't accomplish. in the cases of the examples above, the only ev changes are shifts from hp > offensive stat or vice versa, nothing really very variable, and nothing with very intricate ev arrangements. it will very much be interesting.

 

[Burt Racecar]

I see a couple of directions we could possibly take, ideally we'll do both together as it would further support the concept.

-Mixed offense: Take the banned greninja, running Naive with 40 attack, max speed and the rest in Sp.Att, this was to secure a OHKO on Azumarill with Gunk shot. We could do something similar, but cleverly make this mon hit benchmarks for OHKOs with enough investment on one side of the spectrum that it misses out on a OHKO on the other side of the spectrum.

-Defensive check: the kind of mon that is somewhat tailored towards patching up a team's weakness, with some defensive investment. Of course, we can't displace the virtue of typing here, not in the same way we can for offenses anyway, or else we'd run risk of being far too bulky.

The great thing about this concept is that it really allows for detailed discussion on all fronts with potentially very few limits.

 

[mphallor]

One aspect of this concept that I think would be particularly interesting would be the Checks and Counters discussion. Unlike virtually any other project, this CAP shouldn't have a hard list of checks and counters, since it's supposed to get around some or all of those by tweaking it's EV spread. I also couldn't see us prescribing specific instances of when each thing should be a check (ie Skarmory should counter CAP if it runs a bulky spread, Talonflame should check it if CAP runs offensive) since that would pigeon-hole us at every step of the process. So instead I would expect something like "list of 10 checks. When the project is finished 2 of them should be always reliable, and CAP should be able to beat the other 8 depending on which set it runs, but never more than 5 at a time". Or something like that. I honestly have no idea how this part of the project would be handled, but it's interesting to speculate about.

 

[Agile Turtle]

I think the concept is really interesting, and it's one that I've been wanting to do for a long time. You would have to fine tune every single stat very specifically for the differences in your EV distribution to be that significant. I like the idea of taking a pokemon, and fine tuning it to cover specific roles in your team that you need covering, that's one of the most enjoyable parts of teambuilding (however it can also be the most frustrating). Checks and counters discussion will probably be a little challenging. I think this concept would be challenging in general, however its purpose is pretty straightforward, so I think it wouldn't be too hard to follow.

 

[Zepkhan]

I like this idea, this was kinda what I was trying to do with Speed Trick but I couldn't quite word it right.

 

[nyttyn]

This concept's questions seem to be well thought out, there's traction behind it, and I'm pretty fond of it. There were no objections on IRC sooo

Approved 1/2

 

[Birkal]

At initial inspection, this concept seems impossible with the current CAP Process. Deciding EVs is going to be difficult without stats being decided until halfway through the process, after typing and primary ability. That being said, I think trc's emphasis of differentiated roles is key here. In concept discussion, we should aim to set up a few different roles we want this Pokemon to perform. Once we've accomplished that, we can set out creating those roles at each stage. There should be plenty to learn here on what is a nuanced topic.

APPROVED 2/2